Monday, August 06, 2007

I'm an island

I'm an island. I do not belong anywhere. I'm questioning the meaning of my blogging. I'm questioning the moniker I have adapted. "Conservative" like whom? Like View from the Right? Like Paul Belien? Like Gates of Vienna? No, no, and no. And definitely not like MajorityRights or Jim Kalb. And of course not like neocons and paleocons.

The West consists of Christians and post-Christians, the latter better known as liberals. And of course the fringe group of far whitists (neo-Nazis or otherwise). All three groups having more in common with each other than I have with them. All stuck in Christian slave morality. The liberals and neo-Nazis doing everything to oppose and leaving Christianity but only managing to get even more deeply stuck in Christian slave morality, exposing even more of the whining priestly Jewish attitude, participating even more eagerly in the Christian shadow theater down in that Platonic cave.

We are witnessing the historical demise of Christianity. When a star dies, in its last phase it expands into a red giant, before it shrinks into a white dwarf. Liberalism is the red giant of Christianity. And just as a red giant it is devoid of its core, it expands thousandfold while losing its substance and is about to die. The world I live in consists of Christians and liberals. It's their world and I do not belong to them. I leave their limited wars, knee-jerk Islam apologism and WWII mythology to them. They are not about to change. On the contrary, they are continuously generating new problems with their way of acting.

There were certain sites, certain bloggers, even certain countries, that I had put hope in. But now it has become clear that they are all part of the same big train of lemmings. Bye bye! Denmark, nope. Brussels Journal, nope. View from the Right, nope. Gates of Vienna, nope. I do not know if the news have reached the English speaking world, but Muslim immigration has increased in Denmark the last five years (as reported by Snaphanen). Yes, the "extreme far-right" "near Nazi" immigration laws of Denmark inspired by the Danish People's Party has lead to more Turks and Pakistanis. This is the way it goes in the world of liberals/Christians. It's their world. I can do nothing but sit on the side and laugh at it. They are too stuck in their inner fears and hang-ups to be able to do anything useful. They will do what they are programmed to do: demise.

It's seems that politics is not something for me to be engaging in, after all. Politics is by definition a social activity, but all the other people are stuck down in the cave, while I sit alone at my island. Robinson Crusoe couldn't have engaged in politics even if he wanted to. Western politics is the game of whether our nations should commit suicide fast or slowly. Conservatism is a joke. There are only Christians and liberals (and the occasional far whitist who's often the most extremely Judaoid priestly character of them all), and they all adhere to the same Chrsitan ethics, the same slave morality.

So what's the future for people like me? Because even if I belong nowhere politically, I belong somewhere socially and ethnically. Well, the world is being homogenized. Tomorrow the whole world will be like the Third World. People like me, of European ethnicity, will have no home, no nation. We will live like the Jews as elites in other people's nations (preferably a non-Muslim nation). This doesn't scare me. The Jews have lived thusly for two thousand years. It's a pity, but this is our destiny. This is what the Western Christians and liberals are working eagerly towards. This is what they are programmed to do. This is what they will achieve. I'll let them have it. As an individual I cannot change this. The only thing I can do is to prepare myself for it. A good plan is to live as a "Jew" in Catholic/Mestizo Latin America rather than a Muslim Europe, or the sinking Titanic of America. Even China looks like an option, in comparison.

All while Paul Belien is praising the Turkish Islamic party, AKP, for keeping Allah in the equation. To throw away Allah is not acceptable in the eyes of Belien, which he sees as leading to evil secularism where the state is put in the place of god.

Note also how he's using "conservative" exactly in the way I always opposed to. Kalb, Belien, Steven, Auster, D'Souza etc. They are the conservatives, they have the privilege of how it should be defined, Not a conservative-wannabe like me. Who hereby jump off the conservatism bandwagon: since I found that anecdotal conservatism is actually at the very core of conservatism, and since according to conservatives themselves it is correct to label Ahmedinejad as ultra-conservative. And not ultra-radical, as would have been the case with my interpretation of conservatism, which appeared to be a mirage. Bye bye idiots!

I'm sure Belien is very pleased also with the fact that the Turkish surge that lifted AKP to power, is forcing the Turkish women to dress more "conservatively". "Moderate devout Muslims" are better than secular claptrap, aren't they, Belien?

I can see exactly how creeping dhimmitude happens, as described by Bat Ye'or, when Christianity gets confronted with Islam. Christianity has two sides, the left side and the right side, and both are inviting Islam while trying to defeat each other. Muhammad's brain child is a perfect organism to parasitize on Christianity.

As a Christian, Lawrence Auster adhere to the Jewish god like so many others. But to him the Jewish god is not the foreign, alien god as he is to all the other Westerners, thereby weakening them and their self-esteem. To Lawrence it's his old nationalistic god, a situation which provides Lawrence with substantially more self-confidence than any other Westerner, when speaking as a mouthpiece for Christianity. But it's still the same universalist god of good (and weakness, meekness etc.). Lawrence can only provide a fake impression of what it is to adopt the Jewish god. It won't work the same way for you, since you are not a Jew.

In geopolitics Lawrence is all about good ol' American apple-pie limited war. Something that never worked and a doctrine that left this planet in the worst kind of mess, seen in history, during this last century. The bloodiest and most murderous century of mankind, under the "guidance" of America. Pax Romana and Carthaginian peace are well-tried concepts that works, and that provides mercy and peacefulness for innocent people. But the American way is to leave the world in chaos, the American way is limited war. While any really useful and effective measure against the Islamic empire is seen as "playing god" by Lawrence Auster.

At Gates of Vienna Baron Boddisey acts as the perfect PC Inquisitor when ostracizing Swedish blogger Jan Milld, as anti-Semite, for questioning the exactness of the symbolic figure of 6 million Jews, along with pointing out that the case, about gas chambers, was built on witnesses rather than technical evidence. This made Baron react with his reptile brain, quite as we have seen Lawrence Auster do with regards to me a month ago (on a completely unrelated issue).

These people are just not prepared for a proper fight. They are too much driven by superstitious fear and emotions. And there is not exactly anyone else around.

I'll withdraw and cultivate my garden.

[End of post]


Unknown said...

drama queen

dienw said...

I am thinking that God is knocking at your door. Getting rid of the fakery of the civic religion is a major step in the conversation. There is Christ and then there is a milquetoast[?] version of him: the first creates men, the latter weaklings: soft-faced and dominated by their wives.
Perhaps a poor analogy.

I am reminded of a missionary's recounting of his experience with the fiercest tribes in Venezuela. He told of the natives, before he began his mission, killing recent converts to Christianity because they became weak. These same natives converted when Christianity was shown to keep them men.

Though I am a believer,I stopped attending church after I saw more masculinity in the female fourteen year olds than in the male at a confirmation ceremony. As I looked around, I saw men who, having been under the influence of this "Christian" religion for several years, had become wusses(spiritual 98 pound weaklings).

Conservative Swede said...

mac4ever said...

drama queen

Lol, I appreciate your sarcasm :-)

Yes, it's certainly possible to see my actions in that way. I thought about it this morning and made a joke about it in an email to a friend, only I said "prima donna".

To me there can often be a humorous side as well as a serious side to the same thing. And this funny sarcasm does not take away a bit of the utter seriousness of what I have written in this post.

Ludwig Windthorst said...

Excuse me - what do you know of Christianity? Apparently just nothing.

Conservative Swede said...

Ludwig Windthorst said...

Excuse me - what do you know of Christianity? Apparently just nothing.

This one is also funny. And this time I'm not the tragic figure at display.

Mencius Moldbug said...

You might enjoy my blog, Unqualified Reservations, where we have a very uncomplicated view of the idea that liberalism is a Christian sect.

Mr. Spog said...

I don't think it's entirely true that the Christian God is the Jewish one. He is also the God of Plato; hence, largely Western. Perhaps we should return to Plato and the other classic authors, which could be done with or without Christianity. Eric Voegelin apparently regarded Platonism as a means of 'controlling' Christianity, avoiding the excesses into which a Christianity divorced from its classical background would be liable to fall. Meanwhile, Paul Elmer More, a major figure in American conservative thought, seems to have regarded Platonism as a kind of entrance into Christianity for those of skeptical mind. For both writers, Plato is foundational...

What happened to your proposal, CS, for returning to classical culture? This seems to me to be something on which many people might sooner or later agree. Even if it were only possible for the time being to preserve this culture in monasteries of some kind.

Conservative Swede said...

Dear Mr. Spog,

Welcome back. I have missed you. This is very interesting input from you as always. If anyone would inspire me to write proper posts again it would be someone like you. I thoroughly like your blog. Good themes, Burke, BNP etc. I'll share this thought with you btw, isn't Burke Roman rather than conservative? I'm talking about what I find to be the most important aspect of Burke, namely his dissertation about "How to rule a country".

Regarding returning to classical culture: I'm completely Roman. But I'm surrounded by Christians. Gee, that deja vu of the fall of the Roman empire again..

Mencius Moldbog, nice blog!

Thomas Bolding Hansen said...

Very well written post indeed My good friend :)

But there are a few points which I regret I must object strongly against.

First of all: Denmark are not receiving more moslems than ever, they are receiving more immigrants than ever.
But as for moslem, it is like 7000, as to 20000 in 2001.

Not that it is harmless with those, they breed double as many babies as us natives, but what makes it the end of the world ?

"Christian slavemorality" ?
Is airy fairy multiculturalism some Christian concept? Who praises the quran, Tony Blair or the Pope?
It was "christian slavemoral" to make children, to make sure that people got married and stayed as a family.
So what about we needing more Christian slavemorality"

Explain me, why Islam has become a danger lately, not in proportion with the expansion of Christianity, but in proportion with the actual decline of Christianity, and the identity it gave us, in contrast to islam and the moral values it instilled in us.

Sure there are skinny cowardly Christians, as there are cowardly skinny ateists.
Do red herrings fly as well?
We have perhaps taken an evolutionary step, red flyfish?

But true, we are committing suicide at various speed. But the slow suiciders will be saved by the example of the fast ones, like France and Sweden.

Conservative Swede said...

Bolding, my dear friend!

According to Eyvind Vesselbo, the grand old man of immigration critique in Denmark:

"Folk følger jo loven, men det der er sket, det er at antallet af familiesammenføringer for eksempel til de grupper der var i fokus - altså tyrkere og pakistanere, det er jo faldet drastisk fra 2001 til 2006, men samtidig er antallet af dem som kommer hertil for at studere og for at arbejde, det er steget endnu mere, så der er faktisk kommet flere tyrkere og pakistanere til Danmark efter man har bremset op omkring familiesammenføringerne, de er bare kommet på nogle andre vilkår."

In the bolded part Vesselbo tells us that there has come more Turks and Pakistanis to Denmark in 2006 than in 2001.

And allover immigration has increased substantially quite as you said.

Steen said...

I´m afraid you have gotten that a little wrong. Muslim influx to Denmark is minimal nowadays.
But the influx of people on work and study permits, it maximimal. We have to look out for the problem that Britain has, namely that people who come for work and study - and on turistvisas - simply stay.

Our present numbers and nationalities are :

Pluk fra bilag 1.

Polen 7.771, , Kina 2.509, Litauen 2.146, USA 1.994, Indien 1.368, Filipinerne 1.098 (heraf 955 au pair), Letland 788, Rumænien 685, Rusland 464, Ungarn 330, Thailand 234, Tyrkiet 392, Pakistan 272, Tyskland 174, Iran 77, Irak 25, Spanien 11, Statsløse palæer 11, Syrien 8, Italien 7, Østrig 5, Afghanistan 5, Sudan 1

Britain and France´s problem was in a Telegraph theme this weekend:

Government is working on a back-door amnesty for 450,000 asylum seekers. No matter how it is spun, this is an acceptance by ministers that they are powerless to remove those among that number who have come to Britain for work and not, as they claim, for asylum.;jsessionid=BYRJR0OWIU4WPQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2007/08/05/nimm105.xml

Conservative Swede said...

Hi Steen,

Davs! Please to have you here.

I have not been digging into the figures myself, I have only listened to Eyvind Vesselbo (the radio program linked from your own site), whom I consider an authoritative voice on the issue (as I'm sure you do too).

So your claim is actually that Eyvind Vesselbo gotten things "a little wrong". How do you explain for that? And why should I believe you and not Eyvind Vesselbo? Vesselbo clearly says "så der er faktisk kommet flere tyrkere og pakistanere til Danmark efter man har bremset op omkring familiesammenføringerne". I.e. more Turks and Pakistanis than before the introduction of the "hard-line" immigration policy. Why does he say so, Steen? And why did you link approvingly to his appearance at the radio show, without even mentioning that you strongly disagree with him on such a crucial issue? And if you are right and Vesselbo so very wrong, what has happened to Vesselbo? Has he gone crazy or what?

There seem to be a lot of confusion among the Danes of how many Muslims there are really coming into the country nowadays.

Bolding claims 7000.

Steen says "minimal", and show public figures which suggests less than 1000.

Vesselbo says "more Turks and Pakistanis" than before the introduction of the "hard-line" immigration policy.

Kim Møller at Uriasposten, when confronted with the discrepancy between Vesslbo's words and the public figures, writes: "En statistik med mange huller så at sige, og når en ikke-hardliner som Vesselboe (på sin egen lyserøde facon) råber vagt i gevær, så har man på fornemmelse systemet omgås på flere niveauer." My translation: "A statistics with so many holes in it, as it were, and when a non-hardliner as Vesselbo (in his own bright-red manner) is calling 'be on guard', one gets the impression that the system is circumvented at many levels."

I do read Danish, but I no longer spend several hours per week reading Danish newspapers and digging into Danish publications on the Internet. So I generally lean on the ones I learned to trust since before. I.e. people such as Vesselbo, Steen, Bolding and Kim Möller. But right now you guys point each into one different cardinal point of the compass.

Of course it is possible that it's both true that the influx of Turks and Pakistanis has increased, while the total influx of Muslims has decreased. This is purely speculative angle by me right now. But it would at least make it possible to reconcile the descriptions of Vesselbo and Bolding. It would of course also mean that Vesselbo has cherry-picked figures in order to give a wrongful impression, which would have been completely out of character the way I know him.

So how is it really? The amount of Muslim immigration seems almost impossible for the Danes to agree upon. But the total immigration has increased from 36,000 to 46,000 in the new "hard-line" immigration regime. Nobody questions that.

And Steen you write at your site "17.000 mennesker kommer fra ikke vestlige lande om året, ikke mindst kinesere , pakistanere, afrikanere og tyrkere.". That is, 17,000 non-Western people enters Denmark each year, especially from China, Pakistan, Africa and Turkey.

Alan Roebuck said...

Dear Conservative Swede:

You may recognize my name from View From the Right; I'm one of Auster's correspondents.

I'm not writing to castigate you, but to encourage you to pick up your sword and get back in the fight to restore a properly-ordered Western Civilization, which is the true goal of conservatism.

This battle is primarily spiritual, that is, conducted in the realm of ideas. It consists primarily in attempting to persuade others to accept our ideas. Liberalism is the threat that it is because most people in the West believe it, or at least can't be bothered to oppose it. And most people believe liberalism because authorities they respect made the effort to teach and persuade them that liberalism is true.

It follows that if we conservatives can persuade enough of society's intellectual leaders that liberalism is false, we can restore a properly ordered Western Civilization.

Certainly this will be a difficult battle, but a true warrior does not throw down his weapon when the going gets tough. Liberalism has a fatal weakness: since it is radically false, few people truly believe it. When enough important people declare that the Emperor has no clothes, liberalism will lose its grip on the West.

About your complaints: They have some merit, but they are not fatal to our cause. Don't become discouraged because of secondary issues. Certainly liberalism has infected every individual and every group within the West, and certainly our allies will disappoint us. But this does not nullify the truth about liberalism: it is supremely vulnerable.

You have said that Christianity is an enemy of Western Civilization. Well, I am a Christian and a student of Christianity, and as such I probably know more about Christianity than you do. I say this not to brag, but to assure you that you are mistaken: Real Christianity does not command nations or individuals to surrender to hostile aliens; when the Lord Jesus Christ said "turn the other cheek," He was not commanding us to surrender our nation and our heritage.

Christianity is also true. I have degrees in physics and mathematics from the University of California, so I am not just taking a "blind leap of faith" here. I can assure you that the evidence, properly judged, strongly supports the Faith of Our Fathers.

And it is also the faith of your fathers. Sweden was officially Christian for about a thousand years, I believe, and a proper conservative honors the ways of his people

I assume that your ancestors were Vikings, who were courageous warriors. I urge you to honor them by getting back in the fight.

Alan Roebuck

Thomas Bolding Hansen said...

I retract my 7000 moslems, the fact is that we had IS that we had 7000 more NONWESTERN immigrants coming to study lately than in 2001.
Vut when you look at the numbers Steen provided, few of them are moslems.

So Vesselbo must be talking strictly about more Turks and Pakistanis coming to "work" or "study", not more coming in total.
The 664 Turks and Pakis, would need 60 years or so at that level, to reach the number of the more than 40000 1 genration immigrants we got from those countries inside the country now.

So there is no way this can mean more coming than before, from the moslem world.
If 500 more comes to "study", or "work".
I think it is something we can live with, though it is a hole that need to fixed.

The fact is that we only get a fw thousand moslem per year as it is now.

We get more immigrants, mostly coming to work under EU rules of free movement of labourforce.
But we get fewer moslems.

We get these non western immigrants, as mentioned by Steen, 662 Pakistanis and Turks and a few from Iran etc.

Then we let in 1095 aylum seekers, and 853 refugees, not all moslems, we take many from the nonmoslem parts of Africa.
And totally 4198 through family reunion, this number covers Thai and Russian wifes, also if someone gets his wife From the US here - I believe all family reunions.

So we are perhaps getting as few as 2000 moslems per year, so the demographic superproduction of babies of the 200000+ moslems we already got, is the biggest problem.

More facts here about Danish immigration:

Tal og fakta om indvandring 2006

Mr. Spog said...

Conservative Swede - Thank you. Not sure what you mean about Burke, though. Weren't the Romans (for the most part) arch-conservatives? I am strictly an amateur in these areas, as you may have gathered.

Conservative Swede said...

Bolding and Steen,

You both ignore Eyvind Vesslbo as if he didn't exist. If it is so that you consider that he should be ignored, you will have to motivate why. Otherwise we are still in the original situation of doubt, as expressed by Kim Möller.

What was Vesselbo talking about? This is the thing that needs to be clarified. Steen says one thing here and another at his site: "17,000 non-Western people enters Denmark each year, especially from China, Pakistan, Africa and Turkey". He approvingly links Vesselbo saying that more Turks and Pakistanis are coming to Denmark before the introduction of the "hard-line" immigration policy, but then saying something different here.

The two of you are taking this issue too lightly. Obviously, it requires something more than a glance at public figures, figures which Kim Möller suggests that there are many holes in. Of course, it would be the best if Vesselbo himself spoke out publicly backing up his claims with hard figures, something that he always did excellently before.

Conservative Swede said...


"Conservatism" is a very modern term, connected to the era of liberalism. And a Christian creature, however approvingly extended (by conservatives themselves) to their brothers in Abrahamic monotheism, such as Ahmadinejad.

I consider it completely anachronistic to refer to the Romans as "conservatives" of any kind. It doesn't add any bit of insight, only confusion.

However we inherited law, engineering, societal organization and political traditions from the Romans. The different components, described by Burke, of a functioning political system are, in general terms, the same as the ones described by Machiavelli, are the same as were born with the Roman tradition.

Thomas Bolding Hansen said...

He is talking about more coming to study and work than ever before from these countries.
If more Turks were coming than ever, there would need to be more than 2000 coming, since 1more than 10000 arrived in just few years in the 80´s.
Not really likely, since it is very hard to come to Denmark by now - if you are not EU or EEC = fact!

So neither Vesselbo or we are wrong, the fact is that immigrants from Pakistan and Turkey are increasingly sneaking in as workforce/students.
But there are not coming more moslems to Denmark, there are coming like 1/10 of the average since the 80´s.

Conservative Swede said...

Gee, don't you understand Danish, man??!!

I quote it and I quote it and I link it and I link it, but nobody reads it reads it.

It's from the P1 radio program, transcription here by Kim Möller:

Vesselbo says:
"Folk følger jo loven, men det der er sket, det er at antallet af familiesammenføringer for eksempel til de grupper der var i fokus - altså tyrkere og pakistanere, det er jo faldet drastisk fra 2001 til 2006, men samtidig er antallet af dem som kommer hertil for at studere og for at arbejde, det er steget endnu mere, så der er faktisk kommet flere tyrkere og pakistanere til Danmark efter man har bremset op omkring familiesammenføringerne, de er bare kommet på nogle andre vilkår."

Yes people are following the law, but what has happened is that the number of family-reunions e.g. for those groups that were in focus - i.e. Turks and Pakistanis, have actually fallen drastically from 2001 to 2006, but at the same time the number of them how come here to study or work has increased even more, so there has actually come more Turks and Pakistanis to Denmark after the radical decrease of family-reunions, they have only come under different conditions.

1. Less Turks and Pakistanis by family-reunions.
2. More through study/work immigration.
3. Add it all up and there are more Turks and Pakistanis coming in to Denmark in total than in 2001, according to Vesselbo.

I'm awaiting a comment from a Dane who can actually read.

Thomas Bolding Hansen said...

I can read Danish perfectly well, it being my native tounge.
But most important I can think to myself.

Do you think the official report from the ministery of immigration and refugees is lying?

It clearly says that 664 from these two countries arrived to study or work. That is less than from China alone, more students came from the US to study than from Turkey etc.

664 persons, plus a few hundred more through family reunion, with less than 400 of them seeking and gaining family reunion - applicants more than halved since, for one simple reason, they don´t get family reunion that easily anymore - 20000 got family reunion in 2001 vs 3500 now in total.

So no it can´t that we get as many as we used to do, not even from Pakistan og Turkey.
Not to forget that from Somalia, Middleeast etc. we hardly don´t get any at all.

Go to page 47, in the report from the ministery i linked to in a previous post. You will that 1047 came from those teo countries last year.
That is 1000 to many, but it`s no record in a country that went from 50000 nonwestern immigrants to almost 300000 in just 25 years, among these more than 40000 from Pakistan and Turkey alone.

Look at the list at page 47, out of 46000, hardly 2000 are moslems.
where as in Sweden you almost took 46000 from Iraq alone last year.

I can read just fine, I suggest you do the same, try with reading broader than a few lines :)

Conservative Swede said...

Trying to get back Steen's attention to this issue in another thread. I wrote:


Unfortunately official figures cannot be trusted. Regarding the Swedish unemployment figures here discussed, I know for a fact that it's a theater act and cannot be trusted.

I quoted Eyvind Vesselbo recently saying that there have come more Turks and Pakistanis to Denmark in 2006 than in 2001.

Your answer to this was "I´m afraid you have gotten that a little wrong. Muslim influx to Denmark is minimal nowadays." And then you present figures from official publications.

The thing, Steen, is that I got it completely right. This is exactly what Eyvind Vesselbo said. So it's him you have your argument with, not with me. The curious thing in all this is that I found the comments of Eyvind Vesselbo through a link from your site, where you approvingly link to a radio program where he participated. But since then, in the comment you made at my blog, you discuss the topic as if Vesselbo didn't exist. I cannot see how you can earnestly comment upon this issue while completely ignoring the position of Vesselbo, especially since you approvingly linked to it yourself. Also you wrote at your site that 17,000 non-Western people enters Denmark each year, especially from China, Pakistan, Africa and Turkey (apparently based on Vesselbo's speech). Something that you countered with your comment at my site, as if you had never written it.

Since you have better means than me to follow the discussion in Denmark, I would be greatful if you could comment upon this issue while including the contrary position of Vesselbo, and not only answer by reading straight from public figures (which I can do easily myself).

Your answer is bound to end up in one of the following categories:

a) That regarding this issue you distrust Vesselbo.
b) That regarding this issue you distrust the public figures.
c) That usually you trust both, so this time you are left clueless.
d) The issue can be resolved thanks to the following additional information...

It's of course also possible to do as Thomas Bolding Hansen and first ignore the very existence of Vesselbo, and then again and again being unable to read and understand the Danish uttered by Vesselbo, change the topic to something else, etc., etc., everything to avoid to answer my question.

I just cannot see why it is so hard to give a straight answer to my question. And if you do not know the answer, just say so.