Case study: Robohobo, part 1

I was involved in a controversy recently with the authors of Gates of Vienna. The background is that Fjordman had written an article, The Self-Defeat of the United States. He wrote e.g.:

The USA currently looks more like a defeated nation than the world’s sole remaining superpower. It’s the only nation in history where the majority of the population has elected a member of an organization known for hating the majority population of that country.

[...]

Europeans can and should maintain good relations and cooperate with ordinary North American citizens, who live under the same Multicultural regime as we do, but we cannot and should not rely on aid from the American elites. They are as hostile as the EU elites.

And I picked it up from there and continued a discussion in the comment thread. It was a very good an civilized discussion, mainly consisting of an exchange with PRCalDude, a man that it is a pleasure to disagree with. Part of my argument was in how the current (destructive) world order is upheld by America, the issue of American troops in Germany, and how Germany is the most wing-clipped of all European nations -- where national confidence is effectively in a total coma. Then came the following comment from Robohobo:

ConSwede says:

"...Germany. This is exactly an example of what I am talking about. They will *never* stick up for themselves..."

And the Swedes will? What about the lovely little place called Malmo we hear about on this very blog? Me thinks that this is a case of Pot - Meet - Kettle.

And I have the same question as You New, "How would you best describe your political views?"

That has always escaped me.

I also think that too many including the US elites make the mistake of not counting in the core of the US population, us redneck hicks in flyover country clinging to our families, religion and guns in hard times. Be pretty sure, we have about had enough of The Won. The big Zero that the rest of the world thinks they love so much.

I answered that comment as properly it was possible given the nature of the comment, but my answer got erased by Dymphna, and next Baron Bodissey backed up her decision while describing me as the one lacking good manners. The position of Dymphna and the Baron is that Robohobo's comment was an honest attempt to engage in the discourse, which was dismissed by me in a rude and insulting way.

But this is not what happened, and I can show it wasn't. I will first clarify the nature of Robohobo's comment. Fundamental and essential for Dymphna and the Baron's judgment of the situation is their claim that Robohobo was honestly trying to engage in the discourse. I will show that he wasn't and that they are wrong. Next I will come to my answer to Robohobo and show how this was a proper way of answering such a comment written in bad faith. Two of my previous articles -- The Western weakness, in big and in small and What can be known? -- provide a background for this analysis.

Let's go through Robohobo's comment step by step. Let's start from the beginning:

"...Germany. This is exactly an example of what I am talking about. They will *never* stick up for themselves..."

And the Swedes will? What about the lovely little place called Malmo we hear about on this very blog? Me thinks that this is a case of Pot - Meet - Kettle.

What is Robohobo trying to do here? Did this comment at all have a place in the discourse? Seeing only the answer by Robohobo, without having seen the previous discussion, one would have thought that I had been engaging in a pissing contest between Sweden and Germany, and that I had tried to elevate Sweden at the expense of Germany. But well, anyone who has been following my writings know that I'm the furthest from a praiser of Sweden that you will ever get. And more importantly, with regards to the discourse at hand, Sweden is too insignificant to even enter the discussion.

So how did Robohobo manage to shoehorn Sweden into the discussion? Had he so utterly misunderstood what had actually been discussed that he honestly thought that I had been engaging in a pissing contest between Sweden and Germany, and attempted to elevate Sweden by denigrating Germany? No, of course not! Instead it's clear from the comment by Robohobo (and previous comments by him) that he dislikes my criticism of America as a polity. In spite of how I agreed with Fjordman in how Europeans should maintain good relations and cooperate with ordinary American citizens, apparently he takes it personally, which would most probably be because he's personally identifying with America as a polity. So that's how Sweden enters the picture, Robohobo wants to get back at me at a personal level (a pretty useless attempt since I don't care much for the image of Sweden). This is the general idea of an ad hominem, to deviate from the discourse; instead of dealing with the content of the discussion, go for the person! Use the fact that my country is bad, and paint the situation as if I had tried to elevate my country at the expense of another. The expression "Pot - Meet - Kettle" is indicative of the sandbox fighting level that is intended here by Robohobo.

But Baron Bodissey and Dymphna didn't see this. Is it the blindness of non-judgmental egalitarianism or the automatic sympathy for hurt American feelings, or a combination of both?

And I have the same question as You New, "How would you best describe your political views?"

The background here is that You New, who honestly engaged in the discourse, had asked me "How would you best describe your political views?". I had then answered the question. And then -- after that -- Robohobo repeats the same question. It is easy to objectively conclude that this does not fulfill the requirements of an honest question. Anyone who claims that this is an honest question is either dishonest or a mindless serf of non-judgmental egalitarianism.

Any sane person can see that Robohobo is not the least interested in my answer to the question -- the answer had already been given just before! Instead this is a rhetorical question, the purpose of which was to land in the following statement:

That has always escaped me.

So, as we already concluded, there's no interest in hearing me explaining my political views, instead the combination of "How would you best describe your political views? -- That has always escaped me", in this context, constitutes the speech act of declaring the deliberate intent of having no interest in understanding my political views. And I think, to be honest, that someone that deliberately intend not to understand my views, most certainly won't understand them, or at least won't be caught showing any signs of doing so.

Robohobo ends by writing:

I also think that too many including the US elites make the mistake of not counting in the core of the US population, us redneck hicks in flyover country clinging to our families, religion and guns in hard times. Be pretty sure, we have about had enough of The Won. The big Zero that the rest of the world thinks they love so much.

This is the only part in which he actually engages in the discourse. And this is what his introductory attempts to ritually taking the power out of what I had written -- by bringing it down to a personal level, using sandbox fighting jargon, using a rhetorical question, and demonstratively showing his lack of interest to interpret me properly -- was all about. There was no genuine interest in discussing e.g. Sweden here, after all.

It is a problem, however, for these "redneck hicks" -- if they are going to fight the American establishment -- if they react allergically to a description of how bad off America and its establishment truly is, and their knee-jerk reaction is to attack such criticism (using sandbox fighting jargon etc.). It also notable how Robohobo ties the support of Obama with coming from "the rest of the world". After all Obama was elected in America by Americans (something completely unique and exceptional, as pointed out by Fjordman). So where were this "the core of the US population" when Obama was elected? Where were they even during the Republican primaries, when McCain was chosen?

I think this contributes to illustrate the predicament of America. Keep in mind that, unlike how it is across Western Europe, there's no anti-establishment party of any significance in America. And at the same we see many critical Americans -- describing themselves as "redneck hicks" or whatever -- identifying so strongly with their establishment that they are prepared to go to pretty low levels in defending it, when it is criticized the same way as we criticize our establishment here in Europe. I cannot see but that these two things are connected. It suggests that there simply are not enough Americans with an anti-establishment mindset, in the way we have in Europe, to build the basis of an anti-establishment party of any substance.

In my next part I will continue this analysis and come to what was written in my answer to Robohobo, which was obliterated by the moderation regime at Gates of Vienna.

More:

On the Self-Defeat of the United States

The Western weakness, in big and in small

What can be known?

Moving on, blogging on